Slavery
Perhaps, one of the most subtle yet destructive infringements upon human rights is in my view the Child Support Crusade. It leads to the destruction of Men, families, and it encourages the corruption and decay, that rips and tears at the seams of the fabric of society.
As with all things, it started off with good intentions, as we all know, good intentions have paved the road to my home. Men (according to women) were not “supporting” ”their” children. Of course a system would be needed to ”force” Men to support them. As with many systems before this one, force would be required. Why would it be required? You tell me, I have formed several of my own opinions on why this is.
At first it was just a little push, telling Men to take “responsibility” for “their” children. Then like all regimes will, the little push became a shove. Telling Men that they have to “pay” for “their” children or ”else”. The shove of course, became a clenched fist, full of anger. Men were not responding to these tactics as they were supposed to. It appears that Men didn’t like to be treated as slaves, or serfs for children that even then they had no GUARANTEED right to. It appeared that more draconian tactics would be needed to “force” Men to pay. So now we have entire federal and state databases that account for the wearabouts of Men that have “children” in this god-forsaken hellhole we call america (if you are male, working class and “decide” to have children). The state and federal government can and will imprison you for “debt”, take away your “privilege” to drive on roads that you pay for with your taxes, revoke your ability to leave the country (something I plan on in the next decade or so), ect ect. They will also brand you as a “deadbeat” father, make lists and post them on buses, post offices, and make you a social pariah.
Sounds pretty systematic doesn’t it? Sounds familiar doesn’t it? Remember the Jews in National Socialist germany? They were forced to wear stars of David to identify them.
Sounds pretty similar to the posters in Southern America stating “Lost Nigger, ran away from a WHIPPING THAT HE DESERVED. If found contact Office of Slave Repatriation Division Montgomery, Alamaba.
In Roman times, slaves had to wear a band around their neck proclaiming their status as well. Nowadays we just get a garnishment from our paycheck and if we don’t pay, a warning and punishment. Loss of “privileges” that we as Men pay much more for then women ever have or ever will in my view.
What women fail to comprehend, and personally I think this is biological myself, is that for every ACTION there is an equal and opposite REACTION. Women know what happens during sex, and in my view women have BY FAR much more options in PREVENTING the CONSEQUENCES of their ACTIONS than Men do. Women also know that they are they ones that have to bear the physical brunt of reproduction. Women are cogent of the consequences and hold all of the choices in doing so. So why are Men held responsible? The same reason why women are held in comtempt by many Men. They refuse to accept responsibility for something that they have almost COMPLETE control over. They then abdicate and force responsibility onto the man in various ways. God forbid they get a job or actually try to be a real mother. See I know what a real mother is because I actually HAD one, and a FATHER as well. When I came home from school my mother was THERE. Not at some bullshit dead-end 9-5 job at Subway. My brother and I weren’t pawned off at some state “approved” facility with a bunch of other kids either. My mother and father taught me the importance of FAMILY, of TRUST, of HONOR to name a few things. They showed me how synergy works within a unit of people that actually LOVE one another.
I am so TIRED and DISGUSTED of hearing about how single mothers are “doing it all”, of how the are so “empowered” (a word that needs to be destroyed when placed in context of women) and then in the same paragraph bemoaning their state in life, and how Men DID IT ALL TO THEM and how its ALL THEIR FAULT! What a joke and fine example of Orwellian doublethink you are. Pity or awe is the last thing that you will recieve from me. I AM a Paterfamilias. I am a living example of many Men that NEEDED to be a part of their childrens lives and provided not only money (the only thing that women seem to be concerned about) but love, trust and a mentor. A FATHER. I am also the result, the CONSEQUENCE if you will, of what happens when you choose to destroy such a beautiful thing and replace it with money and a slave.
Slaves HATE their “masters” and while I don’t hate women, I do HATE most of them. I HATE the self-entitlement attitudes that prevail amongst most of the female population. I hate the almost complete lack of empathy, and intelligence of the same. I hate that women like this are the ones that for the most part are going to be the ones that are raising the next “crop” of Male slaves.
Women in general, I hold in the utmost contempt, scorn and disgust. I will fuck you, I will talk to you, and most certainly I will use you for everything that you are worth and then discard you like garbage. Just as I was. It isn’t right, nor is it fair I agree. However it is what it is, and it exists because it was created.
-Strength and Honor-
Maybe its the “class” that I live in, or maybe my perspectives have been skewed, however I have seen this process occur time and time again and the end result is that its DESTROYING the very society that I live within.
August 27th, 2007 at 8:54 am
If I’m not supposed to post here either, cause I’m a woman, just let me know.
Your slavery analogy is not apt - it assumes that the slave was a willing participant in the chain of events that made him a slave.
Also - a woman is NOT more responsible for her child than the father. You have as much control over pregnancy as she does. Wear a condom. They are actually more effective than oral birth control. Nothing is 100%. If you wore a condom and a woman got pregnant it’s not more her fault than yours (excepting if she poked a hole in it).
That said - I think a woman should not have the final say in whether to abort or not. Personally - I think abortion is a horrible, horrible thing and I can’t understand why anyone would have one unless under terrible circumstances, and even then I would be wracked by guilt.
BUT! Abortion is legal. So, to be consistent, I believe a man should have the right to sign a release, saying HE wishes to terminate the pregnancy. And in that case he should no longer be responsible financially, whatever the woman decides. Course, that also would mean he gives up all rights as a father as well.
In the end though, my opinion is that anyone who runs out on a child is despicable. Whether it’s through abortion or failure to make child support payments.
August 27th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Catherine says:
If I’m not supposed to post here either, cause I’m a woman, just let me know.
-I don’t care if you post here Catherine, as long as you post as a civil human being, that is willing to rationally discuss the issues that I present.
Your slavery analogy is not apt - it assumes that the slave was a willing participant in the chain of events that made him a slave.
There are many forms of slavery in my view. Take a look at debt slavery or servitude. How about googling “debtors prisons” as well. I used slavery in its basest form to present my argument. They knew what they were getting into, the debtors that is, however they were enslaved, or imprisoned for it. Maybe the debtor/obligor/slave had a bad break of things, lost his job, broke his leg, or several other different variables. Does he get a break for that? Does that stop him from going to prison, or being chained? Does he get any slack for being a human being? Not as far as I can tell.
How about this analogy: Catherine and Abaddon decide to join in a partnership, and create a garden. They both decide what plants, and both equally pay and work torwards its upkeep all the while working at whatever jobs they may have. However one day Catherine decides that she wants the ENTIRE garden regardless of Abaddons wishes in the matter. Catherine goes to court and instantly has the garden awarded to Catherine, and then the Judge orders Abaddon to work at least 25% of the time on the garden itself, because its his “responsibility” in a “partnership of equals”. When it comes time to harvest the garden, Abaddon expects at LEAST 25% of what comes from it seeing as how he worked on it that much after Catherine decided to remove Abaddon from the garden. Does Abaddon get 25 %? Is Abaddon legally guaranteed anything? Of course not. He recieves nothing for his labor or time, even though Catherine is the one that DECIDED to take it away in the first place. This doesn’t constitute slavery in some form? Are you serious?
Catherine said:
Also - a woman is NOT more responsible for her child than the father. You have as much control over pregnancy as she does. Wear a condom. They are actually more effective than oral birth control. Nothing is 100%. If you wore a condom and a woman got pregnant it’s not more her fault than yours (excepting if she poked a hole in it).
As far as I can tell, condoms were created at least HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of years ago Catherine. Oral female birth control was created in what year you say?? The 1960’s??? Imagine that!? Not to mention that women have had different ways of contraception throughout the ages as well.
A woman DOES bear much more responsibility in the reproductive process, not only because it directly affects her physically for a great deal of time, but because she has so many more OPTIONS in controlling the CONSEQUENCES of her ACTIONS. Name 10 kinds of Male birth control, then name 10 kinds of Female birth control Catherine. If you can name over 4 kinds of Male birth control, I will eat my fucking shorts. What you are talking about, and what most women desire, like most people, is POWER without either CONSEQUENCES or RESPONSIBILITY. The law says that women can fuck and reproduce with whomever they so choose, whenever they decide, and there are no CONSEQUENCES for their choices only the POWER that comes with it.
Catherine says:
That said - I think a woman should not have the final say in whether to abort or not. Personally - I think abortion is a horrible, horrible thing and I can’t understand why anyone would have one unless under terrible circumstances, and even then I would be wracked by guilt.
I agree with you, I personally think that abortion shouldn’t be used as a form of birth control in the very least. These women know what they are doing when they decide to have sex while not on the various forms of birth control that is provided for next to NOTHING if not nothing in this and many other countries. Fuck, I am wracked with guilt just knowing that I will not even be a part of my childrens lives, and that is due to decisions made by other people not even myself.
Catherine said:
BUT! Abortion is legal. So, to be consistent, I believe a man should have the right to sign a release, saying HE wishes to terminate the pregnancy. And in that case he should no longer be responsible financially, whatever the woman decides. Course, that also would mean he gives up all rights as a father as well.
That is true, and I think that would be “equality” under the law. However, why do we even get to this situation in the first place? I LOVE my children, I KNOW that they are the future. I don’t understand, and maybe I never will, on how people can just THROW away a family. I don’t see how society can view children as simply property and accept the destruction of its most integral unit. I fail to see why the nuclear family has been degraded, ridiculed and debased to it’s current state. Are women and Men that short-sighted? Can they not see what comes from this? Or are they that selfish, that ignorant?
-Strength and Honor-
August 28th, 2007 at 5:38 am
Thanks for the civil reply, Abaddon. Also, I hadn’t read your previous posts before I read this one, so I’d like to extend my sympathies for your situation.
My brother had a child out of wedlock with a girl that he does not want to marry. They’ve had a tumultuous relationship for about three years at this point. She has been fair, more or less, but her family HATES my brother, for no good reason (race and religion). He is a fine, upstanding citizen, and he STILL has to walk on eggshells, because he’s afraid he will end up in the same situation you are.
I’m sorry to be harsh, but to be in the situation that you are in, you must have made a mistake somewhere along the way. A run-in with the law maybe? A misunderstanding that got blown out of proportion?
You say you turn to alcohol - maybe that turned a judge against you?
I’m not as familiar with these things as you certainly are at this point, but isn’t there ANYTHING you can do? Forget about what’s fair - cause sometimes life isn’t fair. What can you do to get back together with your children (legally!).
Is there honestly nothing? You can’t repair your reputation to the point where you can request to have your case revisited?
Just as a side note - my mom and dad separated after years of terrible fighting. He left the family, but it was somewhat mutual - she wanted him gone, and he wanted out of his responsibilities.
So, I don’t know why people are so wiling to throw away families, and walk out on their responsibilities. I agree, it’s a terrible thing. But - it’s not always the woman’s fault Abaddon. In my case it was my father’s.
The debt slavery thing is more apt - but I don’t think it’s really slavery. More like indentured servitude - a very unfair exchange of goods, but one that you chose for yourself (even if it was in ignorance of the exact consequences).
Oh - and all you need is one kind of birth control that works. Condoms work. I REALLY won’t budge on that issue! The man is just as responsible as the woman for a pregnancy.
Also - I take back what I said about people who run out on their kids being despicable. What I should have said is that they are weak people committing a despicable action. They might very well have stepped up to the plate in various other parts of their life.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:08 am
About the condoms: They are about 85% effective. The birth control pill is about 99% effective - if taken consistently. The only thing more effective is abstinence.
However, I would still recommend condoms unless both partners have tested disease-free, and they are monogamous. Although that is never guaranteed, even in marriage.
I think the decision to abort should be mutual. If either parent wants to keep the child, it should be kept. She can give it to him after birth if she doesn’t want it. I’ve given birth to two children - I know it would be like giving up one of your limbs to give up your child. But just because it’s easier to abort it before you come to know it, doesn’t make that the right choice.
The parent who doesn’t want it can sign away parental rights, otherwise child support and equal visitation is appropriate. Not optimal, but appropriate. Then again, that would be equality, and we can’t have that, can we?
August 29th, 2007 at 11:58 am
Hi KellyMac,
I had heard the opposite statistics about condom/pill, but upon research it appears you’re right. I still stand by my assertion that the man is as responsible for the child as the woman though. He knew the chance and took it.
Actually, I believe you’re right about pretty much everything in your last post. Except for your last sarcastic bit.
Didn’t your leader, Dick, say you’re not supposed to be sarcastic, ’cause you’re a woman? Tsk tsk.
August 30th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Catherine says:
Thanks for the civil reply, Abaddon. Also, I hadn’t read your previous posts before I read this one, so I’d like to extend my sympathies for your situation.
Civility is the difference between humans and animals in my view. Your sympathies are noted as well.
My brother had a child out of wedlock with a girl that he does not want to marry. They’ve had a tumultuous relationship for about three years at this point. She has been fair, more or less, but her family HATES my brother, for no good reason (race and religion). He is a fine, upstanding citizen, and he STILL has to walk on eggshells, because he’s afraid he will end up in the same situation you are.
In today’s world almost EVERYONE knows a MAN in my position, or so close to it that it isn’t funny. Here’s my point pretty much Catherine: SHE has been fair, more or less. Your words give my arguement credence, it is up to HER to be fair, or not. It is up to her to make the decisions and irregardless of them or the effect that it has upon the child or its father they are given absolute AUTHORITY for the most part. There is no equality in this, nor can there be any sort of compromise when one party in the equasion holds almost all of the POWER.
I’m sorry to be harsh, but to be in the situation that you are in, you must have made a mistake somewhere along the way. A run-in with the law maybe? A misunderstanding that got blown out of proportion?
How are you being harsh? Once again I will go on with my point Catherine, EVERYONE makes mistakes, if you can name one person that hasn’t I’ll eat my fucking hat. Yes I have made mistakes and NO I will not go into them with you on the internet. However I will say that I was, and still am a young Man, and younger people are shall we say more prone to making them?
You say you turn to alcohol - maybe that turned a judge against you?
I’m not as familiar with these things as you certainly are at this point, but isn’t there ANYTHING you can do? Forget about what’s fair - cause sometimes life isn’t fair. What can you do to get back together with your children (legally!).
You’re telling me life lessons that I learned a long time ago. I am not a child Catherine, I know life isn’t fair. Listen up for a sec here, because this is important. Women think that the system is “fair” because it unfairly benefits THEM. However they seem to think that both sides get a slice of the “fairness”. Well WE don’t. Most of us get a miniscule amount of time (if that), depending upon if the mother “feels” safe about it, “feels” up to it AND if we can afford it after everything that we are supposed to provide for the child and ourselves.
This is why many women tend to move FAR A FUCKING WAY after either a seperation or impending custody battle. This also adds AIRFARE and completely fucks all of the planning up for the male. I mean there are FUCKING books out on how to fuck Men over in divorce and custody battles. Does this not show you how SKEWED the system is? I mean I have read from judges, lawyers, fathers, mothers, journalists, on how fucked up the whole system is. Case studies on how most child and elder abuse is commited by WOMEN as a whole. Yet they still recieve children as a MAJORITY in spite of all of the evidence.
There’s nothing I can do as of this point, and I refuse to put myself FURTHER into debt paying some lawyer to take my hard earned money and snort it up his nose with the judge that makes the decisions. I agree with Shakesphere on his fine point to kill them all, he was a smart Man. I am unlike most americans, I have all my bills paid off and my rent paid in advance, because I am industrious, and I refuse to have any more of the fruits of my labor go to a USELESS enterprise.
Yes I drink alcohol, in large quantities as well. I don’t know what strata, or spectrum of society you live in Catherine but it isn’t mine. I live in a place where bitches addicted to meth shit out about 4-5 kids and sit in some Sec 8 housing for the rest of their lives, all the while collecting 3-5 child support checks so they don’t have to go get a job AND they can pay for their habit. I live in a place where the government run housing units, are actually just a neighborhood of loose women, and their drug-dealer boyfriends. I don’t live in suburbia, nor do I live in Compton. I live in Alaska.
So, I don’t know why people are so wiling to throw away families, and walk out on their responsibilities. I agree, it’s a terrible thing. But - it’s not always the woman’s fault Abaddon. In my case it was my father’s.
This blog is from a MALE perspective Catherine. I KNOW that women aren’t always to blame, but I am stating that women are far from blameless in this whole matter.
The debt slavery thing is more apt - but I don’t think it’s really slavery. More like indentured servitude - a very unfair exchange of goods, but one that you chose for yourself (even if it was in ignorance of the exact consequences).
This is the hypocrisy that is woman and I think why women don’t pay child “support”. On that matter, they KNOW how fucked up it is. This is why they will pull out ALL the stops, all the tricks, instead of having to do that one thing. Because most of them will NEVER have to do it. No one LIKES being a slave do they? They would much rather be holding the stick than being on the recieving end of it. They’ll “feel” your pain, but far be it for them to be subjected to it. They call that “your” choice. They will tell you about how unfair it is, but FAR be it for them to ever have to actually live through it. I wont even go into how many choices women have in this matter either.
I bid you a good evening Catherine.
-Strength and Honor-
September 2nd, 2007 at 8:21 am
@abaddon: at what point do you say, “the system isn’t fair, but it is what it is, and I have to work within it”? In other words, stop drinking in large quantities. Save your booze money to make child-friendly improvements in your living environment. Hire a lawyer if necessary to work within the system and spend quality time with your boys before they slip farther away.
It’s a matter of priorities. You’ve spent a lot of time and energy railing against the woman who done you wrong and a system that supported her. It’s time to make a move and show the world what is most important to you. You can use your time and energy generating walls of words like “slavery” and “forsaken” when your boys are grown. If you truly want to spend time with your boys, there are things you must do to change your life, and you know it. I’m only putting it in black and white so that you have a new focus point for your anger. Channel your energy. Your sons don’t and won’t care two shits about what you’ve written; they’ll want to know what you did to get yourself back into their lives.
My sons are 11 and 15. There were a lot of things that were very unfair in my divorce/custody situation as well, and they didn’t always go my way just because I’m a woman. But my kids don’t give a rat’s ass how much money I spent on lawyers, or how much time I gave up at work, or how far behind I’ve fallen on my career path. They only know that their mother loves them and would do anything (including giving up a social life and abstaining from alcohol) to make them her number one priority. Channel your energy. Nothing you do for a child is ever wasted. Nothing.
September 9th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
@abaddon: at what point do you say, “the system isn’t fair, but it is what it is, and I have to work within it”? In other words, stop drinking in large quantities. Save your booze money to make child-friendly improvements in your living environment. Hire a lawyer if necessary to work within the system and spend quality time with your boys before they slip farther away.
Hopefully madame you recieved my apology for my harsh words. I spoke both in haste and without regard to your situation. Here is my respectful rebuttal to your reply.
In short, FUCK YOU. It has taken me a long time to reach the point
you’re speaking about. I have admitted my faults, YOU as a woman focus only upon the ONE flaw that I do have and have admitted to. You sit in a position that is FAR different from mine. You ask me to capitulate to a system that is without honor or respect for me as a parent. A system I might add that has STOLEN my children without regard to me as either a human or a Man. I believe your word for this is called “wallowing”. A consistent double standard in the female psyche.
Your position in life leads you to believe that everyone has money to hire a lawyer. This madame is far from the truth. You ask me to save my “booze” money for my children so to speak. You forget “as usual” that the money that I spend is mine and mine alone. The money YOU are talking about has already been spent in child “support”, how typical, and if I might add, hypocritical. However who’s counting correct? Its all for the “children”?
It’s a matter of priorities. You’ve spent a lot of time and energy railing against the woman who done you wrong and a system that supported her. It’s time to make a move and show the world what is most important to you. You can use your time and energy generating walls of words like “slavery” and “forsaken” when your boys are grown. If you truly want to spend time with your boys, there are things you must do to change your life, and you know it. I’m only putting it in black and white so that you have a new focus point for your anger. Channel your energy. Your sons don’t and won’t care two shits about what you’ve written; they’ll want to know what you did to get yourself back into their lives.
In a perfect system I would agree Dr. Z. For the most part you are reacting to the energy that I have put into this website. What makes you think that I already haven’t spent both time and energy with my children? I SPENT a lot of time with them until THEY were taken away from me genius. God, you women are so hypocritical. You cannot speak or think outside of yourselves. You have words as well, from a perspective that is skewed. You think that it is easy to live as I have? I am not a child having children, I understand Time and its relavence to my sons. I am reacting to a SYSTEM that is both FLAWED and DESTRUCTIVE. Sorry massa, but you fail to see several things. All that you see is the “wall of words” that I have placed here for other Men. That “wall of words” is a warning to all Men that read this, DO NOT FOLLOW MY PATH! Never have children or get married! Channel my energy/rage/anger? Good lord woman do you think that all I do is sit here? You are short-sighted to say the least.
“My” boys are gone, I have exhausted all the resources availible to me to get them back. They are quite a bit for a poor Man that works hard for a living. From what I have seen and my own view of the future, my sons wont give a shit either way, as long as my child support check keeps coming through. A good system isnt it??
My sons are 11 and 15. There were a lot of things that were very unfair in my divorce/custody situation as well, and they didn’t always go my way just because I’m a woman. But my kids don’t give a rat’s ass how much money I spent on lawyers, or how much time I gave up at work, or how far behind I’ve fallen on my career path. They only know that their mother loves them and would do anything (including giving up a social life and abstaining from alcohol) to make them her number one priority. Channel your energy. Nothing you do for a child is ever wasted. Nothing.
Once again madame most respectfully my rebuttal is FUCK YOU! Your situation is much different from mine. If I saw you walking down the street, you wouldn’t even look at me. My children know that their Father loves them as well, however they have just REMOVED from me. I know that they will remember me. However I have ALREADY done everything within my POWER to get them back. Your viewpoint madame is very skewed from my perspective.
-It is by the Strength and Honor of good Men that society Endures throughout the Ages-
September 10th, 2007 at 4:35 am
I’m unclear what apology you may have offered, and in light of what you’ve said, I would have rejected it as insincere anyway.
Look, you are welcome to continue on the path you have chosen, drinking to excess and fancying yourself some badass menace to society. Your choice. It will prevent you from having contact with your children, and if your rants are sincere, that’s in their best interest. I didn’t create the system, but I live within it. You choose not to, and it continues to separate you from your children. Again, that’s your choice.
As for the personal attacks on me, you’ve lost your ability to be logical or to respond rationally. Whether that is a direct result of your drinking remains to be seen, but it will certainly not improve your chances of being reunited with your sons.
So, what I presented to you was your choice to work within an unfair system to do whatever it takes to see your kids, or to continue on the path you’ve taken. Your answer makes your priorities very clear.
I also said in my original post that I was giving you a focus for your anger. That worked like a charm, didn’t it? Look, you can show yourself to be a sober, rational parent or you can continue on this destructive path. There’s no need to attack me or anyone else. You’ve made a choice with which you must live. So be it.
Be well.
~Z~
September 10th, 2007 at 4:37 am
In addition: You don’t know what my situation is, Mr. Fuck You. You are disrespectful and willfully ignorant. That’s the reason I wouldn’t give you the time of day were I to meet you. I’ve no time for self-pity nor for men who have so little self-respect that they project their anger on anyone who comes within range.
September 10th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
In short, Abaddon, I think you need to get over yourself.
And you think WOMEN have a sense of entitlement. Ha!
September 11th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Dr. Z said:
I’m unclear what apology you may have offered, and in light of what you’ve said, I would have rejected it as insincere anyway.
My previous apology was sincere, and was posted a few posts under the one that you (and I agreed) inappropriate. However I will not apologize for something that I consider a wholly appropriate reaction to shittily and poorly laid logic. I did say Fuck You most respectfully if you read carefully Dr.Z.
Dr.Z said:
Look, you are welcome to continue on the path you have chosen, drinking to excess and fancying yourself some badass menace to society. Your choice. It will prevent you from having contact with your children, and if your rants are sincere, that’s in their best interest. I didn’t create the system, but I live within it. You choose not to, and it continues to separate you from your children. Again, that’s your choice.
(shakes head) You don’t even see the point do you? I KNOW you didn’t create the system. I am not blaming you or even women for that. I DIDN’T create it either. I KNOW this. You aren’t even ADDRESSING the point at ALL! You’re still “offended” by the fact that I told you to fuck off! Previously you stated : @abaddon: at what point do you say, “the system isn’t fair, but it is what it is, and I have to work within it”?
Thats why you got the first Fuck you, as I tried to explain the the next paragraph, albeit somewhat sloppily (I will put it in bold so you understand this time, next time Dr.Z I will SPELL it out for you) at what point do you stop CAPTITULATING to a corrupt system, that considers it a “right” to steal YOUR children and make you pay for it? At what point do you finally say FUCK YOU, this is wrong, and either A: passively resist or B: actively resist it? You choose to bow your head to the system I see. Thats a good slave, keep doing that and I guess you might get what you desire maybe, if de massa in de big house decides that its OK (after you have paid out enough MONEY that is)!! I know its my choice, however I have been given NO OTHER ONE! None, nothing, zip, ziltch. Far less than you have recieved I am quite sure.
drinking to excess and fancying yourself some badass menace to society
Ahh, women… or even people in general I guess. What a waste of time and energy. I don’t fancy myself to be anything other than what I was or AM. I am writing about myself, and my experiences on this blog. Nothing more and nothing less, so far. I find it funny that someone in your “class” and intellect, that has had a “similar” experience per se, has the nerve to even talk down to me. I am not a badass, nor will I explain my past to you. I am simply telling it how it IS. I know its hard for you ladies to understand that concept, maybe if we could sit down and have some tea and crumpets or something you may gain some “empathy” that I hear so much about now days. Maybe you should read up on the current rates of incarceration for Males in this country, or the amount that are involved in some way, in the corrections system before you run your mouth madame.
Dr.Z said:
As for the personal attacks on me, you’ve lost your ability to be logical or to respond rationally. Whether that is a direct result of your drinking remains to be seen, but it will certainly not improve your chances of being reunited with your sons.
Please spare me your “judgement”, you have failed to address any of the points that I even brought up in the aforemention post. 500-600 words and you’re so blinded by four of them that you cannot see the rest. Hows that for being rational? Surely I used emotion in my argument, however, FOR THE MOST PART, I was respectful to you and presented a somewhat rational argument.
So, what I presented to you was your choice to work within an unfair system to do whatever it takes to see your kids, or to continue on the path you’ve taken. Your answer makes your priorities very clear.
Your implications are as weak as your logic. Nice straw man. I want to change the system, so therefore I don’t care about my kids. Most people only consider themselves, which is where most of your logic comes from Dr. Z, its solophistic to say the least. You consider the system to be unfair, however you still bow before it. You still acknowledge its authority. You still serve it in a way. You accept it. I DON’T. Bottom line. You will notice that many of your implied “personal attacks” are just that, they aren’t out in the open, they are implied and buried beneath a line of rhetoric. You will notice that I haven’t said a word about those. Simply about the ones that I consider somewhat offensive to my viewpoint. Typical.
Dr. Z said:
I also said in my original post that I was giving you a focus for your anger. That worked like a charm, didn’t it?
(shakes head again) You are SOOO manipulative, I NEVER saw that coming!!! Maybe madame you could consider the fact that I have more than ONE focal point for my emotions? You’re pretty good at this “mind game” stuff. Teach me more please!!??:D
Look, you can show yourself to be a sober, rational parent or you can continue on this destructive path. There’s no need to attack me or anyone else. You’ve made a choice with which you must live. So be it.
Be well.
~Z~
You don’t really read between the lines very much do you? I AM and HAVE been a rational parent Dr.Z. Yes sometimes I get angry and frustrated. Yes sometimes I get sidetracked and am weary from the work that I do. YES sometimes I even get DRUNK. I am a human being, not a robot. Why do people FOCUS upon the negative, when in my view there is a lot more of the positive to focus upon? I have a good job, I have paid my child support, I have loved my children for YEARS! NOT once have you even given that creedence. However you are the rational one I suppose? Typical once again.
-Strength and Honor-
September 11th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Catherine said:
In short, Abaddon, I think you need to get over yourself.
And you think WOMEN have a sense of entitlement. Ha!
Thats pretty good statement Catherine. Its so vague yet so….. sorry I am still looking for a good term for it. Words fail me at this point. Get over myself? What a hypocrite, yet GYYYYRRRLLLL POWER? Do you even have children?
-Strength and Honor-
September 12th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Look, abaddon, it is painfully apparent that you have some sort of inferiority issue with me. That’s too bad, but it’s your problem and I can’t help you with it. If you saw the circumstances in which someone of my “class” lives, you’d probably be very surprised. But this isn’t about me, no matter how hard you try to make it so.
It’s about your kids. They’re growing up fast, and it sounds like they’re doing it without you. I think that’s too bad. But you’ve made it very clear that you know that, and that you resent my advice that you do whatever it takes to be with them. Fair enough.
Be well.
~Z~
September 12th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Dr.Z said:
Look, abaddon, it is painfully apparent that you have some sort of inferiority issue with me. That’s too bad, but it’s your problem and I can’t help you with it. If you saw the circumstances in which someone of my “class” lives, you’d probably be very surprised. But this isn’t about me, no matter how hard you try to make it so.
Of course zogmama, this entire blog was about my inferior status, as compared to you. Your entire analysis is correct. Thats all this entire movement is about. We are reacting because, we are all children! Of course this isnt about you. Its ALL about us right?
Step outside of yourself please, and stop trying to analyze something that you can’t. Stop taking things so personally. The reason why I said that you come from a different “class” is because you take things so personally. If you take insult that seriously, when its not meant that way than fair enough. That doesn’t change the POINT that I made madame. Which is ONE of the SEVERAL that you have repeatedly refused to address WHATSOEVER! Your choice I suppose.
I honestly don’t care what you think about me ZM, you are the one that refuses, you refuse to address anything. You simply throw your opinion out there. For all of your words, you haven’t addressed anything besides the fact that you’re offended by what I have to say.
Dr. Z said:
It’s about your kids. They’re growing up fast, and it sounds like they’re doing it without you. I think that’s too bad. But you’ve made it very clear that you know that, and that you resent my advice that you do whatever it takes to be with them. Fair enough.
Be well.
~Z~
I think you read what I have to say, and then completely disregard it.
-Strength and Honor-
September 19th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Dr.Z
I have a couple of bones to pick with you about this “advice” you seem so eager for Abaddon to take.
1st bone: The idea that he should just accept the system as is and try to work within it is fundamentally flawed. The system does not and will not rewards a man’s efforts with regards to improvement of either one self or ones environment with greater access to his children. While the system does everything it can to ensure mother/child unity, father/child unity is irrelevant to the court no matter what the potential quality of that unity may be. Access to his children is at the sole discretion of the mother and while doing everything right as best as possible with regards to being the best person and having the best facilities to accommodate child access does remove a lot of potential barriers, it does not infer any rights. Thus a woman with malicious intent can and often does ensure the man is completely denied access. The court offers a man no recourse when this happens irrespective of any effort a man may have made or is trying to make. Thus bowing to the system achieves nothing; he may bow to every demand and still never see his children again. To cover its self the court system will devise a never ending list of often completely oppositional expectations to ensure it can forever write off or ignore a mans claim to parity.
For a man bowing to the system is not a rewarding strategy, often times bowing to the system only eases the burden to the system while it is systematically stripping a man’s rights.
2nd bone: This “inferiority complex” and losing of “the ability to be reasonable or to respond rationally” are nothing but deflective attacks designed to detract from the fact that you have to date not answered a single point put to you.
The inferiority complex witch you have wrongly extrapolated and juxta positioned onto your respective positions in society is actually symbolically metaphorical in that it represents the difference between the haves and the have nots in terms of parental rights, and thus by extension represents the difference in the course of action need by those who would have right inferred to them under the present system and those who would not have rights afforded them.
The loss of the ability to reason and respond is by you a total non sequiter. What you offer as advice is baseless and for the most part your comments are just condescending diatribes that take advantage of system discrimination for the purpose of creating your own self aggrandizement. The reasoned response anyone berating simply because they have obtained a position of advantage is to shut them off and out then continue with the actions necessary to correct the unjust balance. Instead, Abaddon has offered you air to speak, you should be grateful, but not under the impression that he is obligated to treat your rantings as if they were based in reality or contained any merit. Responding emotively to unjust assignations of his character and ad hominem attacks that serve no other purpose than to try and get him to yield to unfair treatment so that you may keep your unjust advantages is his right. It does not in anyway diminish his status nor does it detract from the fact that he has made concise and accurate arguments and you haven’t. He is not your verbal scratching post and does not need to behave as such.
Last bone: This idea you have that we “do not know what your situation is” and that Abaddon is “disrespectful and willfully ignorant” is wrong and downright hypocritical. Firstly most situations of this nature are dictated by matters of law and as such our long study and various experiences give us a highly accurate picture of where each party stands. We may not have the finer details however the vast majority of people individual circumstance is as a result of one’s own individual choices and thusly is the responsibility of the person. It also has little to no bearing on the issues of the systematic injustice faced by people entering the system as determined by race gender or orientation. There is nothing disrespectful or willingly ignorant about not becoming side tracked by obvious baiting attempt or the inclusion irrelevant hyperbole.
Also, it is extremely hypocritical of you to appear on the blog of another with the express purpose of casting judgment then turning round and crying foul because you believe you are being judged unfairly or not by the criteria that you would wish a judgment to be based.
Now let me explain something to you, your appearance here as greatly emphasized the need to combat the system and rid it of opinions like those you have demonstrated as well as clear it out of those like your self who would sit on the perch the system provides and so self righteously deal out condescension to those who would in a fair system be our betters. The days in which the system can offer protection to those perched in privilege are numbered. We will not bow nor will we give up or in any form acknowledge as an authority those that seek our oppression for personal gain. It is my suggestion to you Dr.Z that you not be sitting on that perch when we reach it.
P.S Abaddon your children are beautiful and i hope you get to hold them soon. keep fighting it’s worth it.
September 19th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Mr.Anonymous,
Your post was quite apt. As to hope, it is practically all that I have left. I will be writing about it soon. Many thanks for your kind words.
-Strength and Honor-
September 21st, 2007 at 11:48 am
Abadonofff said:
“Women know what happens during sex, and in my view women have BY FAR much more options in PREVENTING the CONSEQUENCES of their ACTIONS than Men do. Women also know that they are they ones that have to bear the physical brunt of reproduction. Women are cogent of the consequences and hold all of the choices in doing so. So why are Men held responsible?”
Men shouldn’t be responsible or have to pay child support:
1. Because when a woman tells you “she’s on the pill” she actually means “I’m going to trap you with a child for the next 18 fucking years of your life”
2. Because most women are using and will use child support and college fund on her own shopping ventures and plastic boobs
3. Because even if the father pays what he’s ordered and then some, the fucking bitch will always play games and not let him see the child
4. Because when the bitch goes on vacation with the next victim dude, she’ll drop the child at the father’s door like a sac of potatoes and do you think she’ll pay him for that week of child support?
I could go on and on Abaddonfff but nothing will change until the next Man-gnific Man-ventor comes up with a better way to avoid unwanted pregnancies than the condom.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
So how far will you go Dr_Z? I’m fairly sure you’d go to the lengths of dealing with someone you dislike and abdicating more of your time than you’d like, and perhaps being forced to do things in a manner inconvenient to your career. Actually from the way you present yourself, I’d say you’d be willing to go further than that.
Myself, I was once engaged to someone who had children. I came to think of them as my stepchildren. I cared very much about them. There was an action taken against my fiancee to have the children remitted to the care of her parents. I could go into the particulars, but I’ll cut forward to the point of the matter that lends credence to the male side of the argument.
After trying to visit, I was politely pulled aside and politely informed that I would have a restraining order issued against me should I try to visit again. Any second attempt would jail me. This would establish a pattern very quickly. It’s not really hard to guess how the (almost) step children would come to view me a few years down the road… the guy who had been sent to prison for “not letting them have the good life they deserved” with their grandparents… how hard would that be to manufacture? Very easy.
This is a unique situation in my case, as I had not yet married, and therefore the children were really of no relation to me, legally speaking. Do not get the impression, however, that the children did not want to see me. They very much did. They were very upset when I left. I was not even given a chance to explain myself.
Now what purpose would it have served for me to press further ahead with this? My fiancee still had visitation. It was implied that my presence could be tied to her “bringing me around” as a basis to modify even her visitation. I was quite poor at the time, just getting started in a career, and I certainly could not afford the kind of legal support that the very rich grandparents could.
My point in this is that this is not all cut-and-dried. I’m certain you’ve had to put up with a ration of shit. However, abaddonfff stated repeatedly he’d done everything possible. I tend to believe him, having been there. I can’t really compare what options might be open to him as an actual biological parent, whereas I was in a different situation. I do know, however, that allegations are not particularly difficult to fabricate against a man, are expensive to defend against, and in the end you may only create a lot of turmoil to no constructive purpose.
Would you go to jail over it?
Knowing that even by doing so, it would accomplish nothing?
Seriously.
I can see why he’d drink. Had you considered, as he stated, that he has in fact exhausted every possible legal option?
September 25th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
I haven’t stopped back to see the comments for a while. Looks like you’ve got a readership of like-minded people. Congrats on your blog.
@Guzo: If I felt your question was sincere, I’d answer it. On the other hand, it’s all hypothetical, and if I told you I’d be jailed for the sake of my children, chances are better than even that you or someone else here would use it as an opening to attack me for my gender. Or my education. Or something else. So I shall respectfully decline.
It seems clear I’m not welcome here if I don’t agree with everything our host says, and so be it.
September 25th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Dr.Z,
This is an open dialogue/discussion. You are afforded the same rights here, as you would have anywhere else. I have not banned you, nor do I “personally” attack you. Anyone that comes here has the right to speak their mind as they would anywhere else, within reason. All are welcome here, regardless of their differences, or thoughts. However cause and effect does come in to play as well. Expect a civil response to the degree that you gave. I will say one thing however, I will not tolerate flame wars. Other than than that, speak your peace or your mind.
Irregardless of the personal issues involved Dr.Z, you still have repeatedly refused to respond to many of the points that several of the posters have brought up.
-Strength and Honor-